That Wacky Liberal Logic: Healthcare, Polls, and American Solutions

So I’m watching Fox last night, and this libbie (I can’t remember who it was and only vaguely think it may have been on O’Reilly’s show.  Sigh.  I really am past my prime. Anyway, this libbie) was hammering the same tired line about how Americans just don’t understand the vision and wisdom of the great and magnificent Oz BO.  His proof?  That when polled (I do remember waiting to hear which poll he meant, but he didn’t say.  Of course.), Americans oppose the healthcare reform bills in Congress, but when each item is taken out and asked separately, the American people generally agreed with the proposal.  Eureka!  Americans want the government to take over healthcare in this country . . . they just don’t know it.  Um.  How’s that again? 

Americans do think that there is need for reform in our healthcare system.  We do think that something should be done to cover more people, to stop “pre-existing conditions” being used as a way of weaseling out of covering people, to stop unfair practices (like charging women more), to reign in costs, & etc.  That’s not news.  That’s fact.  We’ve been saying it for over a year.  The fact that we want all this does not, however, automatically translate to our wanting the government to fix it, to there being only one way to fix it.  That’s crazy liberal thinking, a bizarre ability that only liberals can seem to master of taking 2 adding it to 2 and coming up with the government taking over, and that’s exactly why, or part of why, they keep pushing.  They understand that we want something done in healthcare, but what they fail to understand is that government is not the answer.  The inability to “get it,” to understand what is happening, is not on the people.  It’s on the progs, this Congress, and this administration. We are not stupid.  They are.

That’s why this healthcare summit is going to be such a joke.  The dems are coming in with their agenda all planned out (and posted already on the internet), and they’re going to throw a couple of bones at the reps in an effort to force them to either accept the crap legislation to “save face” (gee, we don’t want to be the party of no, we want to work with you, reach a compromise) or to reject it, be labeled partisan (and numerous other things we’ve all heard a zillion times), and painted as forcing the dems to use reconciliation to pass the monstrosity (the I didn’t want to hit you, you made me do it excuse of abusers everywhere). 

And that’s why “bipartisanship” with these loony tune progs, any attempt at it on this issue, is a mistake.  They have a plan, and while they may not want to stop short of single-payer or the public option, they will.  They’ve said it.  If they can’t get the whole hog, they’ll settle for the starter homeBO says that it could take twenty or so years to achieve his goal of a single-payer system.  This is not what Americans want.  This is what the polls mean when the numbers who oppose the bills are high while the numbers who want some kind of reform are also high.  It’s not inconsistency, it’s not stupidity; it’s simply that we are Americans, and we see there is a problem that needs to be addressed, and as Americans, we want AMERICAN solutions.  Solutions that are based not in the government running everything but in the free market, in competition, in expanding individual choices and freedoms.  This can be accomplished without handing over a huge chunk of our economy (what’s left of it) and (still more of) our liberty to the federal government, but solving the problems in our healthcare system is not the goal for progs.  If it were, there would be a willingness, even an eagerness, to work with reps to address cost and coverage, but that is not on the table.  It’s not even in the same room with the table.  The progs have their own agenda, and it has nothing at all to do with care, cost, or the Constitution.

42 thoughts on “That Wacky Liberal Logic: Healthcare, Polls, and American Solutions

  1. If past performance is any indication of future results (which any stock broker will strictly warn against before shilling that aluminum siding company stock to you), the GOP should just have a trick or two up their sleeve for the cameras, and Obama will fold like a pair of three's.

    Recall that he went to Copenhagen, full of himself and his ability to persuade, and the Olympic committee ate his lunch. He never seems to do his homework to counter any opposition he runs into, since he's never really had to do it before.

    How does that sound for optimism, Fuzz?

  2. I hear what you are saying Fuzzy. Through your blog and others I have come to understand why Americans don't rest easy with the notion of healthcare being run by government. What works for Europeans won't work for you.

    If you embrace the free market wholeheartedly though you have to accept that the insurers exist to make profit – the people they serve are relatively unimportant. They have to set premiums according to risk – therefore as you get older or develop health conditions you will have to pay more. It's like car insurance – mine is incredibly low now I am over 40, married and female 😉

    You are talking about regulation and legislation within the existing framework – yes? That doesn't sound terribly American either.

    One thought for the future that makes me even more against allowing the free market to determine the cost of healthcare ……. what about when genetic testing can thoroughly determine what state of health you can expect in the future? How do you like your insurance premium being based on your genetic profile? It could happen….. and those who refused to be screened could be treated exactly the same as a high-risk patient.

    There are no easy answers IMO

  3. Fuzzy,
    You are absolutely right, this healthcare bill has nothing to do with your health… It is a progressive power grab and nothing more… If they were truly interested in improving healthcare, why won't they entertain portability and TORT reform?

    I'm not so sure it's working for the Europeans…

  4. TBAA – I can't of course speak for ALL Europeans but the UK's NHS works wonderfully for me, my family and friends (and I know a large number of people who have had very serious and chronic health conditions including cancer, auto-immune disease and diabetes). I do (now) understand why Americans don't want a government-run NHS – we're coming from a totally different history and mindset – but I also think the free market alternative is seriously flawed.

  5. First of all, bipartisanship is a dirty word ! What that word means in today's world is the Republicans cave into the Libs wishes. If not, the Republicans are labeled “obstructionists” by the libs and the press.

    Career Politicians only know government fixes to any problem. They have never done anything in the private sector. And I include the RINOs in this observation.

  6. @ Fredd, Oh, you're so great! I really really needed to hear something optimistic today, too. Yay! The GOP have a plan, and on top of that, BO will flounder and fumble this just like (pretty much) everything else he's done since January 09. YAY!

    @ Tammy, it's not us. They hear that we see there's a problem, they just don't understand that we don't think a government takeover is the answer. Actually, they probably DO get that, they just don't give a darn.

    @ CL, aw, that's high praise indeed. I'm glad that you can see where we are coming from, and I'd never try to force an American-style anything on the UK or Europe. Promise. 🙂

    I do see what you are saying, but the thing is that this “all or nothing” approach is a bit of a problem. Insurance and healthcare are already regulated, as they should be, or we'd have who knows what horrors going on. I'm not against government (holy cow, I'm no anarchist), but I am against the federal government running healthcare (or any other private industry, including GM and our banks). Regulations and actually running the show are totally different. One is the role of government, one is not.

    BTW, your genetic screening scenario would be imposed by the government, too. That government study that dictates that women shouldn't even be taught self breast exams will be applied in Medicaid (our gov't care for the poor) long before private insurers do it–if they do it at all. We have ways of ensuring that private industry toes the line, no way in hell of keeping the government in check. God knows, we're trying! Keep in mind, too, that MediCare denies almost three times as many claims as private insurers do. They're broke and trying to cut cost by denying service. That and raising taxes are the government's answer to everything.

    @ Born Again American, right on! They won't look at those common sense solutions because they already know what they want. IF they do “cave” on these, you can bet they'll be rendered void by the government takeover. They have nothing to lose by giving in to reps, but we have everything to lose if we give in.

    @ CL, it is flawed, but better free than not. That's who we are as a people. We can get fixes via laws and regulations, but handing the whole thing over to the federal government? NOT an option.

    @ Odie, right-o! NO working with crazy progs. I said somewhere that it's like trying to work with a serial killer . . . gee, don't let's kill 60 people, let's only kill 30. You cannot compromise with someone who is completely out of their mind and bent on destroying our country.

  7. Fuzzy, like you I'm sick of that tired excuse that we are so dumb we just don't understand the great one's plan and we will so appreciative once he rams it down our throats. Once again tomorrow Obama will shove the pabulum toward us and tell us to eat or else! Great post Fuzzy and thanks for the sidebar H/T!

  8. I don't now, and I never will understand the mindset that wants the government to be more involved in their lives.

    I talk to some of them and they contradict themselves with each pair of contiguous sentences that bumble off their lips.

  9. Er, clearly we Tea Partiers are too DUMB to know we want a government takeover of our lives, health and financial future for the generations. How silly of us.

    I like the word progs. Sounds like frogs. But this kind, if you kiss them, they stay a prog.

  10. “BTW, your genetic screening scenario would be imposed by the government, too” – Umm – maybe in the USA …… this is all unknown territory for you ….. here our premiums for National Insurance are determined purely by income ….. the government could have, by now, adjusted them to account for age, gender, smoking habits, pre-existing conditions, BMI etc but they haven't – and any government that did wouldn't be in office for long!! That's why I don't fear genetic profiling here ……. for now ……… but I remain vigilant of course.

    Hi Kid – it's not a case of wanting the government involved in our lives. I don't want them telling me how to live my life or raise my kids but when faced between the choice of government (where I have a say in the election of my representatives and they will get voted out of office if they try and do something the people don't want) and big private corporations (who are only motivated by profit) then I will choose state-run every time. I can completely accept and want the free market in areas where there is genuine competition and robust regulation. Hopefully that is the compromise situation that you are headed for in the USA :o)

  11. @ Deekaman, me too!!

    @ Ron, it's starting now, as I type this, and BO is talking . . . same old, same old. (you're welcome! that post is wonderful!)

    @ Kid, I don't get it, either, really. It's got to be part that they don't think it will affect THEM (stupid enough to believe the lies about nothing ever affecting THEM, just . . . those OTHER people) and part (in the general populace, not in government) a sincere desire to see good done for all. The latter is simply naivete, lack of knowledge about history (especially socialism, which is romanticized to the point of being unrecognizable).

    @ Opus, heh, frogs and progs, gotta love it!

    @ CL, well, that's not entirely true. We do have government-run healthcare for certain segments of our society already (the poor, the elderly, the military, veterans), and it's always slow, almost always sub-par, very expensive, and as I've already stated MediCare alone rejects more claims than private insurers do. Medicaid guidelines are set by the government and by government studies. So it's not “all new territory” to us at all. Genetic profiling is a red herring here, and frankly, I'd far prefer, as Deekaman says, that a private insurer had my genetic profile than the government. Period.

    re your comment to Kid, we've had this discussion before. Your faith is in government, that's clear, but ours is not. We know very well that we get better service, have more options, have a viable means of registering complaints and having them heard/settled in the private, for-profit market than in anything the government touches. One reason for this is that we can take our money somewhere else (for-profits tend to dislike this and will work with you to resolve problems); whereas, when the government runs it, it's a monopoly, there's no where else to go, and if there were, the government makes the rules and you can't break them without facing fines and jail time. No thank you. And no, there is no compromise possible. The government is not running healthcare in this country, that's settled. What's happening today is a dog and pony show, even if they push it with reconciliation, we'll elect a new Congress who will repeal it. That's my personal mission in life right now, and I believe it's the mission in many of the people on this page's life. This is our country. And socialized medicine has no role here. None.

  12. I hear you Fuzzy and I love and admire your passion for what you believe in :o)

    I just wanted to reply to Kid because there is, to me, a huge difference between allowing the government to control the populace, “1984”-style, and simply using democratically elected government to create efficient and cost-effective solutions in certain areas, like healthcare. I fully appreciate why you see things totally differently.

  13. Aw, thanks! But I have to say if your government is capable of creating efficient and cost-effective solutions, it's the first one in history! Ours just makes things a bogged down nightmare and increases costs in every conceivable area to try to cover the cost of the crazed waste, fraud, and abuse that the government deems “efficient.” No thank you. Give me a private industry any day. I've advocated before for the UPS CEOs and CFOs to go into the United States Post Office and show them how to run a business that is not only efficient and cost effective but that actually serves people and turns a profit. The government is sloooooow, inefficient, and giant black hole that sucks up our money and turns out nothing to show for it.

  14. I've been watching this yammering at the summit this morning. Anybody notice the questionable body language of the POTUS? Chin in the air, head on hand? The Reps seem sincere and are giving some relevant suggestions…the POTUS has been flustered but arrogant many times.

    If I have to hear another 'letter' from a constituent…you'll hear me scream!!

  15. Cambridge Lady. You said when faced between the choice of government (where I have a say in the election of my representatives and they will get voted out of office if they try and do something the people don't want) and big private corporations (who are only motivated by profit) then I will choose state-run every time.

    I therefore maintain that you DO want lots more government in your life.

    I'm talking about America, so given this frame of reference I ask the following questions.

    What causes you to believe that non-performing politicians will be voted out of office? I see no evidence of that in American politics.

    What causes you to believe that a large number of whackjobs residing in the San Francisco area of California and continuing, like robots, to vote in the ignorant evil nancy pelosi again and again into office makes you think that you, living in Ohio or Massachusetts, can avoid being affected by this Speaker of the House when you (99% of Americans) have zero influence on whether she gets to keep her job?

    Why do you hate the capitalist CEO who pulls down 15 million a year, and provides products like the iPhone or (insert your favorite product or customer service centric service here) and choose to hand control of large sections of your life like Health Care over to a politician which does not innovate, provide you with products or services and doesn't even know the meaning of the phrase customer service, let alone STEALS many more millions of your hard earned tax money that you have NO option for deciding whether they get it or not, opposed to a private enterprise where you CAN boycott their products or services if you so choose and see to it they not get a single dime from you? Make no mistake – Pelosi and many others steal many times more than any CEO in America makes. And that's just in hard cash, we're not even talking about them stealing your standard of living and quality of life.

    Cambridge Lady, I am seriously asking you, because I want to understand the thought process that causes someone to give themself willingly and generously to an organization (the government) which they have no control over and where history proves day in and day out that they will be severely abused by this same organization.

    I think I'll ask this same question of the liberals who never visit my blog..;-)

  16. Supergranny. I hear he mentioned he got letters from 10 kids without health insurance. That is BS. There isn't ONE Child in America who isn't on either Medicaid or SCHIP.
    NOT ONE !

  17. Fuzzy, I do think many time the libs do not think a lot of the liberal legislation will affect them.

    Tax the rich – they don't understand the rich pass those taxes on to the middle class. There are other consequences of impacting business profit as almost everyone has a stake in an investment based retirement plan.

    And basically, I think many of them are sociopaths. Don't care about anyone else, focus on themselves and if millions of people are starved for resources because of a global climate scam, not a big deal as long as they have resources available to them decades from now. No biggie.

    Ignorance and self-absorption being the two key driving elements of the liberalis moronicus.

  18. Cambridge Lady, I have to post a follow-up.

    What makes you believe that private industry is only motivated by profit? Profit is a big part of private industry because without it, a business ceases to operate. But there are many businesses that also work to provide value to a community, outside of the process of providing goods or services.

    But who is it that provides the tools for virtually Every Other Entity to operate? Do doctors invent MRI machines or manufacture scalpels or innovate drugs?
    Does government manufacture or invent any of the tools it uses to provide for the National defense for example? Of course the answer to all these questions is No, virtually Nothing can exist without private industry. Goods don't get manufactured or delivered to market where the population can go buy them, take them home, and provide an excellent standard of living for their family without private industry.

    I'd say all that is worth allowing some perks for the people and companies that provide such things. Do you work in private industry? You are part of the process of providing for the community and as far as your business reaches some product or service. Regardless, most people do. It's how they make the money that allows them to live in a home, own property and build a safe and comfortable life for they and their family if they have one.

    I lean very heavily toward supporting Private Industry over and above politicians which really provide No Value outside of national defense.

  19. Hi Kid – I would love to give a long answer here, but I really should be working. I will explain myself more fully in future.

    I think my distrust of private corporations comes from the fact that so many of the UK's essential services and infrastructure were privatised on the promise that prices would become more competitive and services (like the railways) would work better. To my mind that hasn't happened. I pay a small fortune for gas and electricity and swapping suppliers makes no appreciable difference. In an age where we need an integrated public transport system we have the rail network and bus network owned by a myriad of different owners – timetables don't connect and the prices can be shocking (unless you book way in advance). There are many more examples of where British people feel that switching from public to private just hasn't worked out. Watch the UK general election carefully. The conservatives SHOULD get in but it may end up being a hung parliament – many Brits just don't trust them …. Thatcher isn't such a hero here!

    On the positive side everyone in the UK gets access to a world class health service (the vast majority of the time) for an amount that is tiny in comparison to what you pay in the USA. And I have experienced both so I know what the numbers are like.

    I am NOT a socialist – I believe in a mixed economy and I love the fact that a large proportion of the British population run small businesses (including me!) and are able to be entrepreneurial. I'd say about 30% of the people in my local area run their own businesses as their main source of income or as a sideline. I think this is great. I would say I am a social democrat. I welcome the free market most of the time – it works wonderfully where there is choice, competition and regulation. I agree that the privatisation of telecommunications was the right way to go – that has worked really well. I don't want the Royal Mail to be sold off – we have a great service with virtually guaranteed next-day delivery. If it ain't broke, why fix it?

    I don't hate the capitalist – I admire people who have the drive and ability to make money and spread the wealth. I despise bankers working for our partly-nationalised banks who are now taking bonuses before they have repaid that debt to the taxpayer. They just don't get it. I despise people who grew up in this country, benefitted from free education (often to age 21) and free healthcare and then, as soon as they are earning a good amount do everything in their power to avoid paying taxes. Give a little back!!!

    Sorry – a short answer has turned into a rant!! Now I must get back to the business of making money :o)

    PS – I have completely woken up to the fact that the USA and UK are completely different. Reading conservative blogs has been an education. Your distrust of government is clearly very deep-seated. You must forgive me for (mainly) not feeling the same way. Having said that I DON'T welcome the database state, government intervention in family life, constant advising on health, political correctness etc. In that sense I am as much a libertarian as many conservatives. Nothing is black or white – there are many shades of grey in between!

  20. CL, they pay taxes, right? They pay their legal share, what on earth makes you think that you have a right to someone else's profits above and beyond that? You say that you have a business, if you have a particularly good year, do you just send extra money to your government so they can spread it around? Or do you personally spread your own profits around when you earn them?

    I seriously don't understand what makes anyone think they have a right to something that someone else has earned, someone is clever enough (or lucky enough) to be so successful and should just . . . what? hand it over because someone somewhere thinks it's “too much”? And you say you're not a socialist? REALLY?

  21. Fuzzy, I was talking about people who avoid taxes – taxes they are legally obliged to pay to be part of a functioning society. Do you want schools, roads, armed forces etc. Everyone has to pay something. Some people's accounting is a wee bit too “creative”!!

    And I don't object to banker's bonuses per se – but surely they are obliged to re-pay their debt to the state first???

    No I am not a socialist ………….. I just believe in society and working together for the common good – in some but not all areas. Why is that such an impossible concept?

  22. Oh you were referring to the BG article ….. no I don't have a RIGHT to their profits but I think I would be living in better, fairer society if they lowered their prices when the wholesale prices came down. Then the government wouldn't have to pay out cold weather payments to pensioners who can't afford to heat their homes! I don't find profit offensive … just the scale of it at this time when many are struggling.

  23. Who writes the tax laws (including the tax shelters and loopholes) in your country? Here, the tax laws are written by our Congress, of whom 238 members are millionaires themselves. And many of whom take advantage of the very ways around paying taxes that you are complaining about and that they themselves wrote! Honestly, how can expect a company not to take advantage of tax laws when they are written TO BE taken advantage of by the wealthy? Makes no sense to me at all.

  24. OK Fuzzy – I do “get” where the distrust is coming from. Our MPs aren't exactly perfect – we had a recent expenses scandal where some were shown to have been behaving appallingly – but I don't think they are quite so bad.

    Different countries and histories = different conclusions and solutions ….. I'll try to be less confrontational in future – promise!! – although I did reply to some direct questions in my defence 😉

    Have a good weekend :o)

  25. It's been interesting to read the debate going on. I think it's two completely different worlds. Like CL said, different coutries and histories and I think different expectations. I don't think what works in CL's country would work here, nor is it what was intended for us. I've enjoyed reading all the comments. Great one Fuzzy!

  26. @ Tammy, you're right (as is CL) that with our different histories and socio-cultural make-up, we're coming from very different ideological places. That said, I love CL and very much appreciate her viewpoint (makes me think, too).

  27. CL – as to your 5:27 AM comment I find little to argue with. Your right in saying that the American and UK governments are very much different.

    Obama and the Dems haven't kept one promise. I won't list anything, I think the word Everything should be descriptive enough.
    Voting in America is seen by many as a futile exercise but there are still differences.

    Well, I don't know why your priviteizations have not worked as envisioned. Some things in the US are over-priced as well for a variety of reasons, but usually boil down to government.
    Government has been hammering the Health Care system in the US, wrecking it with too much regulation on the care giving side and no regulation of the trial lawyer side. It is a testament to its strength that it still survives. Remove the government's jack boot and balance the regulation and all would be well. But they want it to die so they can take it over and all the money can flow through Washington and be stolen by a myriad of takers foreign and domestic.

    Let me leave you with a couple thoughts then.
    As to taxing the British Gas industry because of their record profits – Are you also willing to refund money when their profit is below par? It will be.

    From the 10,000 foot level – I read my email this morning so thought about this response and your views for a while today.
    In my view, government does not provide me with anything beyond national defense, interstate highways and maintenance of the law at the Supreme court level.

    Everything else they do either complicates my life or makes it more expensive. I have little use for federal government – a little more, but not much for state government and a little for local government as they maintain roads and such that I use.

    In summary – government provides me with nothing tangible in my daily life and what affect they do have on my daily life is all negative.

    Private industry provides me with virtually everything else in my life. The house I live in, everything contained within, the food and clothing, and the means to cook it or clean it.
    It does this at reasonable prices and with satisfactory to excellent customer service levels.
    The reason it does this is Profit. Profit is what makes company executives get up everyday and try to come up with ideas to make something better, cheaper, or more appealing. (Once again for effect, Government does None of those things)
    I think it is fantastic that company CEO's make gazillions of dollars each year. I invest in those companies and share the spoils to some small degree to hedge inflation at the least and to profit myself – at best.

    Profit and competition are the two major causes of an ever increasing standard of living.

    Government has no competition. And as I stated before, the public has no chance to affect an election in any other area of the country. Crooks, thieves, liars, and other assorted Bastids continue to get voted in over and over. Voting is often futile.

  28. -continued

    In particular to the US, the liberals have taken over the schools and most of the universities to the point that students not sharing their liberal views suffer with poor grades regardless of performance.
    I mention that to point out that voting for the purpose of maintaining intelligent progress requires intelligent and properly schooled children. It ain't getting better any time soon.

    There are a few people in congress honestly working for the country, but not enough to make a difference.

    And just for me to have a little fun; As to our thinking the same way, how about we all find children and animals suffering to be so horridly unacceptable that we instantly remove from the Earth any person climbing to a position of power and holding an entire nation of people as suffering starving hostages. Haiti – North Korea – It's a long list.
    How about we all enjoy love so much that we spend any time where we have an opportunity to make something better for someone, to just do it.
    How about we eliminate government projects that have not provided a return on investment. How about we loosen the regulators and make it so a new drug can be on the market in less than 20 years.
    How about we slice off one billion(we gave wall street and banks 30 Trillion! for a do over) and put it into a fund so that every child born with a cleft pallet or some other easily handled operation can be done anywhere in the world and no one has to worry about who is going to pay for it.
    Well, it's not real life, but it is a nice fantasy.

  29. Great rant, Kid. I've been thinking a lot about the republicans' solutions to the healthcare system problems in this country, and if you think about each of them, they are all going to UNDO government interference that has RAISED the cost of healthcare through the roof. Portability, buying across state lines, tort reform, all of it is at root the result of the government. Bahstids! Even their latest “plan” to cut doctor's fees and payouts (tests, etc.) by 23% on MediCare patients is all about saving money for MediCare. The doctors can't afford even deeper cuts (they get only a pittance as it is from MediCare), and will be forced to drop patients, not take on more (as our population ages and the boomers hit MediCare age soon), and who's to blame for that? You got it. Who'll be demonized? That's right, the doctors, private insurance, and whatever other “big business” scapegoat they can pin it on. I wish to God people paid attention and understood how all this works. Almost everything goes back to the government's interfering . . . including gas prices!

  30. Fuzzy, Yes, doctors are already quitting. People who plan to becomes doctors, reasonably intelligent people by and large, will think about going to university for 8 years only to be a puppet of the government, being told when how and ho much and they will not become doctors. Only flunkies and losers will end up as doctors, and this is how the system goes to hell. I guess you said that.

    Liberals can't grasp that, but take that concept to every facet of industry and you have why socialism arrives a mediocre-ism in a holy hurry.

    What was France's latest bleeding edge innovation again?
    Oh right.

  31. Fredd has such great optimism! Obama had things handed to him on a silver platter via the government and thru affirmative action. He only knows the easy way and not tough competition. He tries to deceive people but after the election, that hasn't been working. The truth is being revealed about this crappy bill. Obama's trying to do a big powergrab via health care bill and is getting frustrated because his plan isn't working. Now, he's getting testy, just like a whiny crybaby that can't have his way-I saw his testiness on Thursday.

  32. He was very testy on Thursday; he's so petty and petulant that my mom would have smacked him into next week for being a complete brat (well, she would have threatened to, that always worked well enough on me when I was a kid, heh).

  33. Very Well Said, Fuzzy! I didn't watch the dog and pony show either.
    In the aftermath, everyone is reporting that obama acted like a peeved professor who's naughty students weren't paying attention to him.

    I don't have cable and if I did, I wouldn't watch this liar.
    I hope you have a lovely weekend. I'm praying for you, and all of us that
    needs God's help. That would be America as a whole, these days.

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